Sometimes, comments threads just amaze.
Right, removed quote formatting due to the silly silly way it deals with them.
Here’s the chain I wish to highlight, from this piece on video gaming’s inherent issues from being a young white male interest:
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HotCoffee 7 hours ago
‘And most white males are sexist.’
Both racist and sexist there, yourself. If you had a point, you lost me there.
Seriosuly, fuck you.
Sincerely,
A white male, and one of your core readership
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[I’m sure they’re hurt.]
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HotCoffee 6 hours ago
Some more points:
1) The lack of women in games development is an enduring testament to the intelligence of women. Having been there and left, I can tell you that games programmers / artists / scripters etc are overworked, underpaid, under-respected for their skills and are simply treated like shit. You do far, far better financially in any other tech / programming industry, unless you are one of the lucky few who reach the very top of the mountain.
2) Having sexy, scantily clad women isn’t sexism. I know you think that it is, but it isn’t. It is okay to display and enjoy looking at the human form. If you feel shame over this, perhaps you might work said issues out with a psychiatrist.
3) You labor under the misconception that creators lead the purchasers, rather than the other way round. I have (had) friends who work(ed) on CoD, and for EA on some of their more rubbish products. Do they want to? Do they want this to be the pinnacle of gaming at the moment? No. They’d much rather be working on something less creatively bankrupt. But this is what the audience demands. This is what pays the bills. If people genuinely thought that a game starring a trans-gender person exposing the patriarchy would sell (and I accept this could be fucking brilliant, honestly) it would be made. But people know it wouldn’t. The audience ensures such games don’t get made. That is both men who have no interest in such things, and women who don’t demand such games.
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Marijn 6 hours ago
@Stoatboy Well, technically he’s right: Florence’s statement is negatively prejudiced to race (white) and gender (male). But that’s ignoring the fact that complaining about anti-white male prejudice as a white man is pretty much the most pathetic thing one could possibly do, considering one’s priviliged position in society.
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HotCoffee 6 hours ago
@TheApologist
You assert that there is widespread discrimination against women and black people. You haven’t said where, exactly. The US? The UK? I’d accept that there is racism in these places, but widespread sexism? Not really. Where I live (Bahamas - a Caribbean nation) there certainly is a lot of discrimination against women and gay people, but really none against black people as they are a majority. Discrimination against Haitians, sure. But that’s not because they’re black.
See, I simply can’t and don’t accept your assertion, so I can’t answer the question.
We’d have to start at the beginning of the debate.
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[A classic “I live in Opposite Land, statistics are wrong” derail there. One nation doth not the world make!]
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cloud_ix 6 hours ago
@HotCoffee Totally with you on this, you shouldn’t be able to get away with this blatant sexism and racism, and the site should apologise
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Not ironic, note.
So, I engaged, and here follows the chain:
sanctusmortis 4 hours ago
@HotCoffee Please look up “white male privilege”. I too am a white male, as is the writer, and he’s right. There’s a great article that compares it to choosing a difficulty on a game, where “straight white male” is the easiest, if you care to Google.
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HotCoffee 2 hours ago
@sanctusmortis
I know all about ‘white male privelege’, I have read that article, and I think the vast majority of it is liberal bullshit.
That’s my opinion, and I have every right to it.
Growing up in black country I thought racism only existed by blacks against whites. I was racially abused myself. This isn’t a joke, or a lie. Where was my privilege then, when I was an outcast? Either I have it merely by being a white male or I don’t. Bollocks, utter, utter fucking bollocks.
Privilege lies in the hands of the wealthy. A wealthy woman is way better off and more respected than a poor man. A wealthy black man such as a footballer has way more privilege than a poor white person.
‘White privilege’ as a catch-all is sheer bullshit. You can’t force me to accept it. I love all races, growing up in a multi-cultural society taught me how great it is. It doesn’t make the concept of privilege any less repugnant to me.
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sanctusmortis 1 hour ago
@HotCoffee Wait… you’re dismissing a concept because you live in “Opposite Land”.
I could cry laughing, really I could.
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HotCoffee 1 hour ago
@sanctusmortis
What the fuck are you talking about, ‘opposite land’. It’s called the Bahamas. You say I have white male privilege, I am telling you I, and many others, do not. My experiences are fucking real, and they inform my opinions. Why does this make you want to cry laughing? Are you mentally subnormal? Autistic?
I also clearly explained that I believe the concept of privilege to be exclusively wrapped up with wealth, and thus not applicable to gender or race.
Do you understand this point? If you did I think you would have addressed it. I’m not sure why I bothered to reply, I suppose I’m a masochist.
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sanctusmortis 59 minutes ago
@HotCoffee Aww you’re so sweet when riled by your being challenged.
The Bahamas? Hang out of the rich white man du jour? Gee, can’t imagine why they’d hate white people! Could it be that whole slavery thing, or the mass appropriation of lands by colonialists? I mean, how utterly unreasonable of them! Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bahamas
Being white, in 90% of the world, is a massive advantage. The majority of black people are in countries of abject poverty, require tons of aid, have higher instances of disease, lower access to basic amenities, have been forced out of their lands by the White European standard through mass colonialism, and are demonised heavily. And you honestly think there is no privilege to being white? Read: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/
You make me want to cry laughing because one experience does not a world make. In the US, the de facto place for stats into cultures, wages are simply divided by race and gender (see http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0882775.html). The rest of the world pretty much follows suit.
You are entitled to an opinion, but you are also unable to deny others that. Fun isn’t it.
Oh! And as an advocate for people in the disabled community and a former care/ support worker, assuming mental illness in someone you disagree with is a great example of white privilege in action. After all, what separates mass murdering whites from others? They’re not monsters, they’re ill.
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nick-h 38 minutes ago
@HotCoffee You said it. Most white males are sexist, indeed. He might as well have said “everyone reading this article is a bigot, because I say so”.
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nick-h 36 minutes ago
@sanctusmortis I don’t know whether what you said is actually true or not, but unless you can categorically state that black men are never sexist… yeah, you can’t state that.
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sanctusmortis 32 minutes ago
@nick-h Crikey. Another non-reader!
White people as a mass group are a thing. This does not mean an individual is also that thing, merely that most people (ie over 50% by ANY margin, statistically) are.
Yes, black people can make comments that are negative towards white people. That happens. But the majority?
Again, go read those articles above, and learn how statistics work, and indeed grow up to accept how opinions, facts, and statistics are wholly different.
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nick-h 28 minutes ago
@sanctusmortis Sorry, since when is “sexist” the same thing as “racist”? I’m all confused.
EDIT: By the way that’s also the reason I didn’t read your links. Racism in this case is… not exactly relevant.
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HotCoffee 19 minutes ago
@sanctusmortis
First of all, the classic, ‘aw sweetie you’re so cute’ intro. Love it, that’s feminism 101, along with this piece of shit website: http://www.derailingfordummies.com.
In fairness, the aw sweetie thing did get me the first, say, 50 times I heard it so I can’t fault you for trying.
Secondly. You don’t know me. Your ‘rich white man du jour’ statement makes a lot of assumptions and exposes some serious resentment of white people. Might you be a racist yourself? Anyway, I went to the same high school as all the local kids. My dad moved out there because he was unemployed. Of course, unemployed people of fucking rolling in it, right?
But I’ve realized that we are arguing different things here. I am arguing that white privilege doesn’t exist because it implies all whites have it, which they don’t. You are arguing that the white race, is, in general, in a privileged position compared to other races.
If those are our positions, I would say we are both right.
Boy, though, you sure are annoying! Gee whizz.
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sanctusmortis 12 minutes ago
@HotCoffee AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I’m a white married unemployed father of two. I just understand where I stand in the world!
Great straw man with “we’re both right”; the sentence basically caveats that you don’t understand the issue, then tries to say stalemate.
You need one of those “you tried” stars so hard.
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LiamK 11 minutes ago
I am arguing that white privilege doesn’t exist because it implies all whites have it, which they don’t. You are arguing that the white race, is, in general, in a privileged position compared to other races.
They are kind of the same thing. Sure, not all white people are rich. But I bet you a bottom of the rung white person would have better luck trying to find a job than a bottom of the rung black person, if all other things are equal.
It’s like the article “Straight White Male - the lowest difficulty setting there is” states: there are rich black females. There are poor white males. But by and large, in the vast majority of cases, a straight white person will find things easier in life than a gay black female.
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sanctusmortis 10 minutes ago
@nick-h the issue is white male privilege. If race isn’t relevant to that, neither is sex.
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sanctusmortis 9 minutes ago
@LiamK THANKYOU! He got it, you two! You too should get it! It’s not that hard!
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nick-h 9 minutes ago
@sanctusmortis I wouldn’t crow too soon. Being a white anti-black racist is deplorable. Being a black anti-white racist is wrong, but understandable. Being a white anti-white racist looks… well, slightly demented.
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sanctusmortis 1 minute ago
@nick-h Oh dear. You played THAT card.
It’s not racist to point out where I myself stand.
I come form a nation that, throughout history, has specialised in being taken over and taking over.
I’m unemployed and heavily in debt, with 2 kids and a wife working a job of pretty low income. And yet, here I am, in a fully furnished and equipped house, with nary a benefit to help me. This would simply not be possible in many countries, but here in the UK, it is.
How has white privilege got me here? Well, white means European in nature, which means good medical support, education for all, social security, benefits, social housing… there are so many many benefits to being where I am, and not where other people are.
You think any of that is true of most of Africa? China? Heck, even for most of India and South America, it’s just not true.
People need to learn where they come from, and what it gives them, to truly appreciate life, and more importantly to have empathy for others. Heck, it is a Christian value, a cornerstone of the Western world, to look out for your fellow man. Bigotry, even the innate kind that goes with privilege, stems the flow of that value.
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There are parts of this I love.
- Somehow, because the black population of an area dislikes you, they’re racist. No, if you’re in the Bahamas, it’s probably because of what the European world did there - enslaved the indigenous population, colonised the land, and claimed it as theirs. I mean, Wikipedia even says they’re ruled by Queen Elizabeth II, that should be a clue…
- Because I acknowledge white privilege and attack those who do not, I myself am racist. Against… me. And my family, and pretty much everyone I know. Ahaha.
- You can give them links and statistics all you want, but a sample size of one is proof, PROOF you lie.
- That the immediate assumption is I am not white/am rich/some other crap, and that because I’m not I must be somehow mentally ill, that cause celebre of white people who do things wrong. Y’know, like the Aurora shooter, or Anders Breivik, or any other white mass murderer. Never dangerous psychopaths or terrorists, mentally ill people who must be healed.
- “We’re arguing different things” is a nice way of saying “you are using statistics of a wide population and I am using anecdotal evidence, I wish that was a draw”.
I plan to check back in in the morning, having slept.
